Author Topic: need your advice on what to do (Read 6264 times)

Adrienne · « **on:** 07:04PM 09/27/2004 »

okay, so i'm wondering what my best course of action is to get my car to the point where it will (easily) run a 12-second quarter-mile (if not better).

should I swap the engine out for _____________________?
should I rebuild my current SOHC vtec?
add NOS?
just do a turbo?
...or a combination of the above.

i want to go the best route for my car in the long-run and won't cost more than my annual salary

i've been meaning to talk to Modern about all this, but Christian's busy and stuff...so I thought I'd ask the other experts

i am also going to get a big brake kit (with slotted rotors) for the front and do a rear-brake conversion to full brakes. eventually i am going to do a custom interior, but no too much in the way of weight-reduction.

so whaddya think i should do about the engine? what are some other things that I will need to do for the car so I don't have a problem drag racing?

oh, and thanks in advance cuz i know next to jack about the internals of cars. I can change a tire & raise/lower my coilovers, but that's about it

ZChick · « **Reply #1 on:** 08:07PM 09/27/2004 »

DON'T DO NOS! I would either rebuild the engine or do a turbo. If you don't run NOS properly you can damage your engine. Plus with a turbo you always have the additional power and with NOS you only have the power when you shoot. Jared and I estimated the amount we would spend refilling a NOS bottle and realized that a turbo would be cheaper in the long run.

Jeffrey · « **Reply #2 on:** 09:48PM 09/27/2004 »

I'm not a pro but I agree that nitrous is much too pricey.

And I also think an engine build or swap would definitly be in the cards if you want to hit 12's in a honda.

Staats · « **Reply #3 on:** 09:58PM 09/27/2004 »

My advice is know weither u are doing all motor or Forced induction because the pistons are diffrent and you have to know what you want to do before you build it

OverLord · « **Reply #4 on:** 10:42PM 09/27/2004 »

I Love these questions because I have already planned my eventual B18 monster. Fisrt Get rid of that SOHC and swap a B18c1. Send it out to a trusted machine shop to get it sleeved and bored to 2.0. Get some beefy rods crower or eagle will do. Get some Endyn pistons, Have the entire rotating assembly balanced and blue printed. As for the head get a P and P done Port match the Intake and Exhaust Ports. Three angle Valve job. As far as Cams and Valves you can get the aftermarket upgrades but the stockers will do just fine if going TURBO which you should for 12's. As for a turbo kit you have a ton of options. What I wanted to do was get a Greddy kit to start with. Get the turbo a P and P, ceramic coating, andÃ‚Â Add a front mount, Real engine management (Hondata, AEM....) and tune the crap out of the thing. Get a true 3" exhaust with high flow down pipe and please add a high flow cat. Get a high flow fuel pump, you may want better injectors too. As far as ignition goes you should go with NKG IK22 plugs, Some better wires and MSD has quite a nice set up you can go with. Do not take any short cuts. I could go on for ever but this is my plan not the best plan. I know B-town will have some changes or additions to what I have said. Have fun. After all of these mods a small shot of N2o would be a good kick in the pants. Be advised N2o will clog your cat and if used too much or if misused it will kill your built motor.

Jeffrey · « **Reply #5 on:** 10:54PM 09/27/2004 »

I think I have finally turned the corner of truly loving cars.

That engine description was turning me on a little.

Juddidiah · « **Reply #6 on:** 12:26AM 09/28/2004 »

Quote from: Jeff on 09:48PM 09/27/2004

I'm not a pro but I agree that nitrous is much too pricey.

And I also think an engine build or swap would definitly be in the cards if you want to hit 12's in a honda.

WTF? Nitrous to pricey? This is a legit 75hp bolt on? With good internals plenty more. Sure you couldn't pull 12's w/N20 alone, but it's many times cheaper than F/I. It's going to have to be a solid run either way. N20 ~600-800$ for a pretty decent setup, where as Modern has probably already quoted ~2-3k for a turbo setup. Better internals are going to be needed to to 12's anyway. N20 will kill an engine just as easily as a poorly tuned F/I setup. It's all about knowing whats is happening in your motor. With all that said, Turbo is your best bet for 12's. Yes, N20 is only there at the push of a button. BUT the upside is that the motor is only subjected to 500+hp for short intervals & not very often. F/I always puts the extra strain on the rotating assembly. Generally to fill a N20 bottle it's ~$50. to spend 2K on N20 is 40 bottles. And I don't know of anyone who's gone through 20 bottles let alone 40 bottles of N20.

Just my .02$

OverLord · « **Reply #7 on:** 12:51AM 09/28/2004 »

Quote from: Jeff on 10:54PM 09/27/2004

I think I have finally turned the corner of truly loving cars.

That engine description was turning me on a little.

It is better than porn I will tell you what.

Mar_DC2 · « **Reply #8 on:** 01:58AM 09/28/2004 »

overlord has some good ideas

you'll definitly get more power out of a DOHC VTEC than your SOHC. DOHC's average between 220-280whp with a regular T3/T4 turbo kit (meaning FMIC, BOV, external wastegate, log manifold, etc...) on the stock bottom end.

if you dont want to swap, it's still possible to run 12's with an SOHC, Cody is in the mid-high 11's right now with his non-vtec coupe and there are tons of 13-14 second SOHC's out there with stock bottom ends, its all in the tuning. i'd personally put more money into tuning than i would into parts. i got more power out of having my old, stock Si tuned for two hours by Cortney than i would had i spent $1,000+ on inake, header, exhaust, etc...

you wont get far in utah going all motor. i'd suggest doing the turbo thing, whether you decide to swap or not, and get a hondata S100. you'll have to convert your car to OBD-I, but its worth it if you have these kinds of goals. just run the turbo kit on the stock motor for a while and get it tuned as much as you possibly can. see how close you can get to your goal on the stock motor, then you'll know what you have to do to get into the 12's.

ZChick · « **Reply #9 on:** 08:48AM 09/28/2004 »

I know someone that kept his sohc and got good times but I think I would go with the dohc. I agreed with Overload- don't take any shortcuts.

utahteg · « **Reply #10 on:** 10:13AM 09/28/2004 »

I would avoid N2O like the plague...to do it right and safely you should build up the bottom end. If it were me, I would swap to a b18 of your choice, send it to be built - rods, pistons, sleeves (just as Corey said). Then get a reliable turbo -- precision makes some nice turbos with a lot of high hp potential...you need it to hit the 12's. You will need a complete 3" exhaust set up -- from the turbo all the way out. If you go with hondata get the s200b...then you have the capability to data log. You'll also need 500 cc injectors, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure gauge. After that have it tuned right and you'll easily be in the 12's if not better. Oh I would also get some lilght weight drag wheels and some slicks. As btown said you'll want to swap your ecu for a OBD-1, I would get a p72 -- vtec and knock sensor. Also, I almost forgot...get a light weight flywheel, and a good clutch.

Adrienne · « **Reply #11 on:** 11:26AM 09/28/2004 »

i don't take shortcuts when it comes to my car. if i'm going to spend the effort and money to upgrade my car, i'm going to do it right the first time

!

if this helps any, here's what I've done so far in the way of engine/performance:
Ingalls rear camber kit
GReddy SP2 cat-back exhaust
ACT HC5-XTSS Clutch set (Xtreme Duty Pressure Plate, organic disc - up to 270 ft/lbs torque)
ACT StreetLite Flywheel
Tein SuperStreet Coilovers

i am also going to get the StopTech BigBrake kit (slotted rotors) for the front and do a full brake conversion on the rear.

The original turbo setup I had planned for my car was:
GReddy TD04H turbo (integral wastegate, e-Manage, 4x 3100ccÃ‚Â injectors, cast-iron manifold, etc.)
GReddy 31V front-mount intercooler
GReddy Type S blow-off valve
GReddyÃ‚Â PRofec Boost Controller
dyno and tuning time

utahteg · « **Reply #12 on:** 11:36AM 09/28/2004 »

I would go with the type 24 intercooler...it's bigger and will work better if you're shooting for 12's. I would also sell the 310 cc injectors that come with the kit and upgrade. The 310's will max out around 220 whp...you'll need close to 275-300 whp depending on your setup and driving skills.

Adrienne · « **Reply #13 on:** 12:35PM 09/28/2004 »

i think the reason Christian chose the type 31 intercooler for me was because originally I was only shooting for ~200 WHP, but hey, I might was well shoot for 300 WHP, right?
what would you suggest i replace the injectors with?

utahteg · « **Reply #14 on:** 12:48PM 09/28/2004 »

I would shoot fot at least 300 whp. You can spend the same amount of money, but get more power...there's no reason to do it twice.

Juddidiah · « **Reply #15 on:** 01:31PM 09/28/2004 »

Assuming your car weighs nearly stock (2500lbs), 300whp should give you a solid 12 second pass. ~225whp is barely going to put you in the 12's with good driving.

BTW, what did Modern quote you for that turbo setup?

Adrienne · « **Reply #16 on:** 02:40PM 09/28/2004 »

Quote from: Juddidiah on 01:31PM 09/28/2004

BTW, what did Modern quote you for that turbo setup?

including all the dyno & tuning time, extra parts, fitting, etc...it was $5600, but after talking to Christian recently, the price on the turbo has gone up since my original quote back in February of this year, so it'll prolly be at least $6000 by the time it's done.

Mar_DC2 · « **Reply #17 on:** 03:12AM 09/29/2004 »

yeah, GReddy raised their prices really high this year for some reason. the 96+ SOHC turbo kits used to be $1,900, now they're up to about $2,400.

BTW, for the price that you'd be getting that turbo kit, you could get a DRAG or MaxRev, which is TONS better. those kits all come with a FMIC, T3/T4 turbo, tial or deltagate wastegates, BOV's, etc... its a much better way to spend that kind of money. GReddy has the Emanage and injectors, but thats about all it has going for it. you still have to spend almost $1,000 more for the intercooler, BOV, and the turbo isn't half as good as a T3/T4. plus, the MaxRev kits are pretty much 100% customizable, you can change turbo specs, piping, intercooler, etc... to whatever you want.

ZChick · « **Reply #18 on:** 08:26AM 09/29/2004 »

Greddy is the only one that is street legal so I would go with it. It's the only one that will pass emissions as far as I know.

All turbo kits are customizable.

Adrienne · « **Reply #19 on:** 11:11AM 09/29/2004 »

Quote from: smokinchick on 08:26AM 09/29/2004

Greddy is the only one that is street legal so I would go with it. It's the only one that will pass emissions as far as I know.

yeah, i'll prolly stick with GReddy then because I want to stay as street legal as possible. I want to be able to actually drive my car around town without getting pulled over every 5 minutes

Mar_DC2 · « **Reply #20 on:** 12:19PM 09/29/2004 »

the only reason the GReddy kit passes emissions is because its already tuned that way when you buy it. any car with an aftermarket turbo kit can be tuned to pass emissions. basically as long as you have a cat, run really low boost so you can lean it out, and make sure your emission devices (ECU, O2 sensors, etc...) are all intact and in working order, you'll be fine. many people with systems like hondata, uberdata, AEM, etc.. that are able to store more than one fuel map have store a map that is tuned just to pass emissions. then when the time comes, all you have to do is switch to that map and tinker around with boost and fuel pressure. you should know that as soon as you start tuning your car, its no longer street legal. you're not going to have a civic that can pull off a 12 second run and then pass emissions without touching anything.

and i meant customizable from the factory. you're not just buying something thats already in a box, you piece together your kit and what you want with it before you buy it.

utahteg · « **Reply #21 on:** 12:28PM 09/29/2004 »

You are right in a sense Mark...but there is more than just the emissions...the other turbo kits throw a check engine light so you automatically will fail the safety inspection...the GReddy kit doesn't...I know because this is what I have and I'm running 12 psi and I haven't had any issues yet.

I think re-tuning your car everytime you get and your safety and emmisions done would be a pain and expensive if you needed some one else to do it. But that's just my opinion.

You can buy the GReddy 18G seperately and piece a kit together too, you can do that with anything you want...if I'm not wrong. I have friends who have bought just the 18G and then pieced together the rest of the kit. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying???

I think the main thing to remember Adrienne is that you shouldn't limit yourself to say 300 whp because you will want more once you get it. Be sure to get something that you can upgrade to without buying a new turbo, intercooler, injectors, etc., etc.

Mar_DC2 · « **Reply #22 on:** 01:00PM 09/29/2004 »

yeah i know about the CEL issue. thats why i said make sure all of your emissions equipment is in working order, other kits throw a check engine light because many people with OBD-II cars are too lazy to fix the o2 sensor problem.

Adrienne · « **Reply #23 on:** 11:05PM 09/29/2004 »

well, this is all good to know. i had no idea that it was this involved.
i definitely want my car to pass emissions & inspections with minimal "adjustments"

all this talk about turbo is....well, exciting

...i better go to bed now

Jeffrey · « **Reply #24 on:** 10:57AM 09/30/2004 »

I'd be exciting to me if I had the money....anyone feel like giving me $10,000 that I don't have to pay back? It'll go to a good cause (college, car) I swear.

Adrienne · « **Reply #25 on:** 11:12AM 09/30/2004 »

Quote from: Jeff on 10:57AM 09/30/2004

I'd be exciting to me if I had the money....anyone feel like giving me $10,000 that I don't have to pay back? It'll go to a good cause (college, car) I swear.

i think you're barking up the wrong tree here, but you could always start a website for donations...maybe call it "I need a faster car, donate your hard-earned money to Jeff" fund. you may actually get some $$ like that chick did with her credit card site (savekaryn?)

Jeffrey · « **Reply #26 on:** 12:55PM 09/30/2004 »

Haha...Why not?

ZChick · « **Reply #27 on:** 10:35PM 09/30/2004 »

I need a website set up for donations!!! I could be... had a baby so my husband drives my car while I'm stuck driving a slow car without a turbo.- Need speed!

Adrienne · « **Reply #28 on:** 07:37AM 10/01/2004 »

Quote from: smokinchick on 10:35PM 09/30/2004

I need a website set up for donations!!! I could be... had a baby so my husband drives my car while I'm stuck driving a slow car without a turbo.- Need speed!

i am definitely more sympathetic to your cause than Jeff's! You deserve a car with turbo....every girl does

utahteg · « **Reply #29 on:** 09:18AM 10/01/2004 »

Quote from: Adrienne on 07:37AM 10/01/2004

i am definitely more sympathetic to your cause than Jeff's! You deserve a car with turbo....every girl does

hahahahahahaha

Jeffrey · « **Reply #30 on:** 09:23AM 10/01/2004 »

Well thanks...

I may be less deserving, but I've never really had the good graces of money in my life. Yep...I took up a bad hobby considering my current financial situation. $:-\$

Adrienne · « **Reply #31 on:** 09:35AM 10/01/2004 »

i didn't say you were LESS deserving, just that I am more sympathetic to smokinchick's cause.
but hey, you could always give it a shot and see if people will help you out with your expensive hobby! you'd be surpised how many suckers, ...er...philanthropists there are out there.

Jeffrey · « **Reply #32 on:** 12:32PM 10/01/2004 »

LOL. I might just do that...Set up a "Donate to Jeff fund on my webpage."

Adrienne · « **Reply #33 on:** 05:54PM 10/06/2004 »

i wanted to thank everyone for their input on this. It really helped me understand what my options are and even a bit on how it all works together.

i just got back from Modern to discuss the plans and OMG...I am in 7th heaven right now.:
b-series engine swap
rebuild engine
full-race turbo - Stage 3GT 580 HP

limited slip differential
and a whole bunch of other goodies - I don't want to get too turned on talking about it.
I can't wait!!

utahteg · « **Reply #34 on:** 07:14PM 10/06/2004 »

Nice, I'm glad you decided not to limit yourself to just 300 whp...an excellent decision. So when will this all take place???

Adrienne · « **Reply #35 on:** 08:33PM 10/06/2004 »

depends on what christian comes back with on the cost mostly. there will be 4 build stages, but most of it will be done outside of the car then just install it when it's all ready.
the plan is to hopefully start all this around january and be done by the first round of midnight drags

ZChick · « **Reply #36 on:** 10:09PM 10/07/2004 »

Why is power such a turn on? That's awesome- It'll be cool if you get it down by midnight drags.

Mar_DC2 · « **Reply #37 on:** 01:37AM 10/08/2004 »

sounds awesome, which engine are you looking to swap in there? if i made the kind of money you probably make....i dont want to think of what my car would be like.

Adrienne · « **Reply #38 on:** 09:11AM 10/08/2004 »

Quote from: Btown_DC2 on 01:37AM 10/08/2004

sounds awesome, which engine are you looking to swap in there? if i made the kind of money you probably make....i dont want to think of what my car would be like.

b18 - integra GSR

it'll get boored out to a 2.0L - figure that'll work better than swapping for a k-series then booring that out (and less $$)

Adrienne · « **Reply #39 on:** 09:12AM 10/08/2004 »

Quote from: smokinchick on 10:09PM 10/07/2004

Why is power such a turn on? That's awesome- It'll be cool if you get it down by midnight drags.

it'll definitely be done by the summer and you better believe I'll be down at midnight drags

Mar_DC2 · « **Reply #40 on:** 01:45PM 10/08/2004 »

nice. i want to see your estimates after christian gets done with them so i can drool all over myself.

1slowCX · « **Reply #41 on:** 04:47PM 10/09/2004 »

im glad to see you choose the b18c1 much better for boost then the c5.. i didn't read this whole topic but after what overlord said i had to post this....

Tyler · « **Reply #42 on:** 08:05PM 10/10/2004 »

One more thing...practice launching a high HP car. Just go out some night on a dry, clean road, and just play with launching.

And at least look at some good pads for your brakes. Stoping from 120MPH or so will be hard on your stock(ish) brakes.

I dont know who else to recomend...but I would look else ware. Modern is known for over charging. They do GREAT work, but still over priced.

ZChick · « **Reply #43 on:** 10:16PM 10/10/2004 »

Even if they are a little more I would still go through them. I think they have the most knowledge and experience when it comes to racing especially with Hondas.

Adrienne · « **Reply #44 on:** 10:42PM 10/10/2004 »

well, i don't mind paying more knowing that it will get done right the first time and that I can always go back to them with questions, problems, etc. Plus, i just don't trust anyone else with my car

plus, christian said that there is a 90-day training period where he'll teach me HOW to handle/drive the car.
will definitely do something about the brakes, even if it is just getting slotted rotors or something to keep 'em cooler. i don't think the big brake kit will work with DRs, but they would be nice for the daily drive

Tyler · « **Reply #45 on:** 02:07AM 10/11/2004 »

I see where you guys are coming from. But we REALY need another shop around here. Even if its worse then Modern, then we can say "go to the better shop". And feal alot better about paying more...you know...

OverLord · « **Reply #46 on:** 10:19AM 10/11/2004 »

Quote from: EGteknikhatch on 04:47PM 10/09/2004

im glad to see you choose the b18c1 much better for boost then the c5.. i didn't read this whole topic but after what overlord said i had to post this....

I dont know why I posted C5, I guess I was a little excited. But EG is right the C1 is a much better choice since you are building the whole thing.

Fade2Black · « **Reply #47 on:** 10:44AM 10/11/2004 »

Quote from: MaleficZ on 02:07AM 10/11/2004

I see where you guys are coming from.Ã‚Â But we REALY need another shop around here.Ã‚Â Even if its worse then Modern, then we can say "go to the better shop".Ã‚Â And feal alot better about paying more...you know...

well i know most of ya are north of SLC, right? well there is Eurosport, and Phantom Motorsports down here and i would trust eurosport with my life cause i know one of the guys that works down there...... and phantom i can really say much about, but i am sure they can do decent work from last i heard, they lost one of their good mechanics.....
IMO i would rather have modern work on my car, because, Courtney is the one that is always scheduled to work on my car....

ZChick · « **Reply #48 on:** 11:31AM 10/11/2004 »

Everytime I went to Eurosport they wouldn't help me. I don't know if it was because I was a chick or what. They always seem too busy working on their own cars to help customers. Just my opinion.

1slowCX · « **Reply #49 on:** 11:41AM 10/11/2004 »

i heard courtney left modern...

Mar_DC2 · « **Reply #50 on:** 11:55AM 10/11/2004 »

i've heard good things about eurosport. phantom..not so much. i went in and talked to them about my car once and they just seemed really arrogant and had that "if you dont have any money, you dont have any reason to be here" attitude.

when did cortney leave?

Adrienne · « **Reply #51 on:** 11:59AM 10/11/2004 »

i was just at modern on thursday and i'm pretty sure he was still there. why on earth would he leave modern if it is true?

ZChick · « **Reply #52 on:** 01:46PM 10/11/2004 »

Courtney did leave but he is still doing work for Modern. He is contracting his expertise out now instead of working directly for Modern. Courtney is good- I don't know if I would trust my car to anyone else.

Mar_DC2 · « **Reply #53 on:** 06:22PM 10/11/2004 »

Quote from: Adrienne on 10:42PM 10/10/2004

will definitely do something about the brakes, even if it is just getting slotted rotors or something to keep 'em cooler. i don't think the big brake kit will work with DRs, but they would be nice for the daily drive

if i were you i'd just get some brembo rotors (slotted or stock replacement, drilled rotors are crap) and a set of nice brake pads. thats pretty much all you need. there are so many civics in the SM and upper classes at SCCA events running stock rear drum brakes and the only thing they have up front is just better pads.

you could even upgrade to GSR brakes front and rear, or an ITR 5 lug conversion. the rotors on the 5 lug are more than an inch larger in diameter than your stock ones, and the calipers are awesome. you can even get the front calipers off an NSX and bolt them right on as an upgrade, plus you can still fit 15"-16" wheels over them for the slicks.

BnLake · « **Reply #54 on:** 03:10PM 10/18/2004 »

You're going to go through pads like you wouldn't believe once you get slotted rotors or cross drilled so make sure you get pads with a lifetime warranty (yes they exist)

Adrienne · « **Reply #55 on:** 03:31PM 10/18/2004 »

Quote from: OsKaR on 03:10PM 10/18/2004

You're going to go through pads like you wouldn't believe once you get slotted rotors or cross drilled so make sure you get pads with a lifetime warranty (yes they exist)

why do you go through them faster? i would think that it would slow down the wear & tear by keeping things cool, but i guess that only really keeps your brakes from warping, right?

Mar_DC2 · « **Reply #56 on:** 02:05AM 10/21/2004 »

the slots/holes slightly increase the friction on the pad, but i dont think they would cause the pads to wear fast enough to really tell a difference. you might go through pads once every 13 months instead of every 14. i guess it really depends on the pad and rotor.

slotted and drilled rotors are really pointless unless youre involved in some kind of road racing or autocross. they're useful in races where youre on and off the brakes frequently and the rotors can get too hot and warp, but for drag racing or daily driving, they serve no purpose.

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Author Topic: need your advice on what to do (Read 6264 times)